Talk:Youth Employment Act 653
Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:29 PM
🤷🏻♂️ Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:29 PM Everyone really picking the most inconsequential hills to die on today Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/13/2023 11:29 PM Yes useing adults as labor key word adults Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:30 PM How do you propose we "try hard enough" Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:30 PM
Who do you think goes through all the garbage from Europe and the americas that gets shipped to India and the third world? Children. Hasn’t stopped anyone from sending more over Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:30 PM I think the point of this very bill is to avoid that situation Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:31 PM
It’s already mostly done, monitoring, CCTV, facial recognition, etc etc Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:31 PM Yeah, we're going to CCTV and facial recognition proper safety measures Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:31 PM
Let kids work who want to and can show that they want to for honest reasons. That’s my bottom line point. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:32 PM My bottom line point is that kids shouldn't be doing dangerous jobs until they're old enough to properly understand that it's dangerous And not thrilling or bragworthy Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/13/2023 11:33 PM I am not against kids working as long as it’s a good environment fast food go ahead customer service good idea hard physical labor hell no Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:34 PM
Fast food is ok? You would rather subject kids to the emotional and mental abuse from the people who regularly abuse those workers? I’d rather go into a mine than work at a McDonald’s Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:35 PM I don't know, shitty people are something everyone has to face But not the possibility of dying in a mine Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/13/2023 11:36 PM In comparison with the mines yes listen anywhere they work their will be Karen’s that’s a fact of life but in comparison to that and hard physical labor hell yes Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:36 PM
People don’t die in mines anymore, not in places where there are actual safety procedures put into place Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:36 PM And how are we going to ensure there's actual safety procedures put into place Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/13/2023 11:37 PM They don’t have to die for it to be harmful long term Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:38 PM
This assembly is the legislative branch of the federal government, I think we can work on something Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:38 PM You're the one proposing this idea Why aren't you working on something Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:40 PM
We’ve been having this discussion for about 10 minutes 😛 Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:41 PM More like you saying "mining good because safety measures good" And us reiterating "why would we want to let kids mine in the first place" Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:50 PM
This was me, directly answering your previous post, which I replied to. Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/13/2023 11:51 PM
My posts, at least the last few, were closer to: “stop basing your outdated arguments on some tv show you once saw about how bad mining was in 1956” Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/13/2023 11:54 PM Ahh yes because this screams good environment for minors definitely seems to have gotten better over the years Image Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:57 PM Why would we want to allow minors to mine anyhow It's just such a niche skill That is only useful if they're truly passionate But since there's no passion litmus test Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/13/2023 11:58 PM Not to mention it’s a dieing industry Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/13/2023 11:59 PM I have to disagree on that but Not quite the point Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/13/2023 11:59 PM Agree to disagree Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:07 AM
Care to cite your source if you’re going to use a picture? Where is the picture from? What source? Where was the picture taken? What year? Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:09 AM 6 years ago it’s from the YouTube video diging for hope witch I would like to say features all adults Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:09 AM
And look at that man’s face. It’s clean. Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:09 AM And Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:09 AM
He obviously hasn’t been sitting there breathing in any dust And you can’t put up some random picture with no information and no citations and act like it proves your point The video that it is from is from six years ago? Do you know when the video was actually taken? Was it 6 years before that? Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:12 AM Yeah not directly and you can’t just ignore the entire picture and just focus on the guys face and act like that’s a tell all and I’m sorry but if you can’t see a problem with a minor working in a environment like that. That is a massive problem and it was filmed and released 6years ago I believe Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:14 AM
An environment like what? You’ve provided one picture with no context. I don’t know where in the world that photo is from, I don’t know if that’s the beginning of a brand new tunnel that they are just starting to dig, and worse of all you don’t know any of that information either. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:15 AM Modern ore mining can pose several physical dangers to workers, including:
Cave-ins: Underground mining operations can be prone to cave-ins, which can cause serious injuries or fatalities to miners.
Explosions: Mining operations involving explosives can be hazardous due to the risk of explosions or fires.
Heavy machinery: Modern mining operations involve the use of heavy machinery, such as excavators, bulldozers, and dump trucks. Workers operating this equipment can be at risk of accidents, such as getting caught in machinery or being hit by falling objects.
Respiratory hazards: Mining operations can generate dust and other airborne particles, which can pose a risk to miners' respiratory health. Exposure to silica dust, for example, can cause silicosis, a lung disease that can be fatal.
Chemical exposure: Mining operations can involve the use of chemicals, such as cyanide and mercury, which can be toxic if not handled properly. Workers can be exposed to these chemicals through skin contact, inhalation, or ingestion.
Noise exposure: Mining operations can generate high levels of noise from heavy machinery and other equipment, which can cause hearing loss or other auditory problems.
Overall, mining can be a physically demanding and hazardous occupation, and it is important for mining companies to prioritize the safety and health of their workers through training, safety protocols, and equipment maintenance. Courtesy of ChatGPT Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:17 AM
“One of the biggest complaints about ChatGPT is that it provides information, but the veracity and accuracy of that information is uncertain. That's because ChatGPT doesn't provide sources, footnotes, or links to where it derived information used in its answers.” Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:18 AM You're telling me that mining won't generate noise? Or involve dangerous gases? Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:18 AM Environmental like what?! A minor working in that cramped tunnel operateing heavy machinery inhaling god knows what that isn’t just a danger to the minor themself it is a danger to everyone else working in the mine even the premise is ridiculous Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:18 AM
I’m telling you that if you’re going to bring citations into the debate, bring something credible This is one step above quoting Wikipedia to me Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:19 AM I'm not bringing citations, I'm bringing opinions of the dangers of mining Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:19 AM Ok then let’s see your evidence what proves your point besides your opinion Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:19 AM And, again, why would we want minors to mine? What are the benefits to mining? Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:19 AM
Off of that one picture you’re assuming people are working in that tunnel. You don’t know that is my point, you’re taking one picture and using it to jump to the conclusion that you already have stuck in your head. That’s not a sound basis for debate Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:20 AM Physical fitness? Can't they exercise normally? Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:20 AM
All of the stuff you use lol Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:20 AM Educational purposes? Field trips are fine, we don't need them working there Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:20 AM I mean in the terms of skills. What will mining teach minors? Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:20 AM
Happy to when I’m not getting ready to go to sleep 😛 Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:21 AM
Modern mining using modern equipment, that includes physics, mathematics, engineering. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:21 AM Can't they learn that from school or safer workplaces Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/14/2023 12:21 AM I found a scientific article relating to mining, I will report back when I have finished reading it. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:21 AM Make sure it's modern mining Wouldn't want dated television stuff would we Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/14/2023 12:22 AM Its 2016, relatively modern. Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:22 AM
Maybe they hate school, maybe they prefer to learn by doing It’s very case by case Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/14/2023 12:22 AM I am going to pretend you didn't say that. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:22 AM I can't believe I'm saying this but Are we really going to encourage that Hating school Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:23 AM
You don’t have to encourage that, I can promise you lol Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:23 AM Why can't we do field trips Or school improvement Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:24 AM
That’s not actual learning, it’s show and tell Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:24 AM Then we're doing field trips wrong Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:24 AM
Many of these skills take years to build up and even start to master, a field trip accomplishes nothing other than getting the teacher out of the classroom for the day Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:25 AM And that should count as school improvement Idk but my school trip experiences were always fun and educational Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:25 AM I am in favor of allowing minors to develop versatile skills early What will mining teach them? Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:26 AM
Modern mining using modern equipment, that includes physics, mathematics, engineering. To quote myself from 4 minutes ago Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:26 AM Again, why can't they learn that in school or safer workplaces Why must it be mining Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:26 AM One picture at least I have evidence you haven’t provided one source on how this is a good thing and people do work in that tunnel I saw it in the video crap you can even see it in the picture your entire argument is basically we shouldn’t prohibit minors from working where they want to work a ridiculous premise especially when it’s in a industry as dangerous as mining Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:26 AM I'm learning math fine in school Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:26 AM
It doesn’t have to be mining. That’s one example. Ffs. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:26 AM You're the one bringing this whole thing up Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:27 AM
That’s not evidence Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:27 AM Also, language wanguage Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:27 AM
If I show you a picture of a unicorn is that evidence that they exist? Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:27 AM No because it’s a unicorn Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:28 AM
Ah, so the “one picture” argument only works for things that you want it to Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:28 AM When relating to a working environment and not a mythical creature yes Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:28 AM
How many folks here are against kids working in the tech field, let me ask that Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:29 AM
It’s as mythical as your citations to this point, my friend. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:29 AM I don't think I'm going to die from fumes working in IT Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:29 AM
What about exhaustion? Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:29 AM And about as imaginary as your argument Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:30 AM Yeah, sure, watch me type myself to death in front of a laptop Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:30 AM
Are sweatshops where children put together our cell phones or take apart the batteries from our electric cars more acceptable? Because there’s no fumes? Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:30 AM Again, honorable member, the purpose of this bill is to prevent that Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:31 AM
Also, why do all of us have nothing better to do tonight? 😛 Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:31 AM No because those are just that sweat shops I don’t find writeing lines of code or something comparable to a sweat shop Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:31 AM
I worry that it stifles some. “Just” sweat shops? Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:32 AM I do have better things to do but I'm just too invested at this point lol Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:32 AM
Assembling phones does also count as the tech sector Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/14/2023 12:33 AM
I can appreciate that lol But I am going to bed at this point, so night y’all Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:33 AM Night Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:33 AM Night Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:33 AM Honestly best debate I’ve seen in a while lol Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:35 AM Wouldn't necessary say the best More like one of the most active probably Jonn Stevens (DPPK) — 04/14/2023 12:35 AM Interesting? Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/14/2023 12:35 AM Yeah, that lol Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/14/2023 12:55 AM I have found three scientific journal articles relating to mining. I admit that I did not read significant portions of the articles, however I can assure you they are very reliable. B. Nowrouzi-Kia et al.'s meta-analysis uses several reliability tools to thin out studies that were deemed bias and L. Friedman et al.'s study used data from the Mine Safety and Health Adminstration within the US between 1983 and 2015. The latter study had an extensive inclusion criteria for outliners such as incomplete data tables or those that are non-miners.
In short, the studies found that the most common risk factors of injuries are long-shifts, irregular shifts, mining operations with less than 100 personnel, experience and age. That is, the less experienced and younger the miner is, the more likely they are to be injuried or killed. Additionally, 85% of injuries and 90% fatalities occur as a result of operating mining equipment in any way, including operating, fixing or maintaining said equipment. With mining labourers being the most at risk of these types of injuries or fatalities.
Do you want our mining industry to be built on a foundation of children corpses? Attachment file type: acrobat Systematic_review_-_Lost-time_injuries_in_the_US.pdf 195.09 KB Attachment file type: acrobat Injuries_associated_with_long_working_hours.pdf 399.97 KB Attachment file type: acrobat 1-s2.0-S2093791118301616-main.pdf 2.67 MB I hate to appeal to emotion as I think its a bailout, but we have to remember our legislations and laws affect real people, real kids. I don't want to be in a mine, so I can't expect a child to do either. von Zeppelin [CKA] — 04/14/2023 2:03 AM I want to add: it is necessary to allow only light child labor, not so much out of pity, but out of economic calculation. A child with a mental or physical injury is a person who will later have to spend extra money on: psychological services or medical services. An injured employee is a bad employee who does not pay taxes and does not develop the economy.
The example of China and India is unconvincing, since they occupy the periphery of the economy, not least because of the low efficiency of the use of resources, including human resources. The use of manual child labor is proof of this.
I note that the modern world is a post-industrial world, and the main thing in it is the service sector, in which minors are employed, and not the manufacturing sector, for example, manufactories.
In total, minors can be allowed to work, but not to the detriment of the future. Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/14/2023 7:04 AM I find the arguments from the President strangely... devicive? Sure, I own a smartphone that was probably made in a sweatshop factory in China. However, that doesn't mean I support that, whether that sweatshop employs children or adults. ((OOC: I bought my iPhone second-hand, so none of my money is going directly to Apple anyway.)) The issue is that we have no control over the poor conditions in countries where this kind of abuse takes place. Just because we purchase those products does not make us complicit in their manufacture. The entire point of this bill is to change a situation which we can actually change.
Mr. Mikaelson's arguments smack of the delusion that because children have specific physical capabilities, they will be immediately more useful in situations that require... small hands? Small bodies? I see no instance in which a child, a minor, would be more useful because of their small hands. Mr. Mikaelson cites metalworking and phone-assembly. Isn't the vast majority of the small-hand work done via a robot? And to suggest that a child with small hands, just as a nature of them being small, would be more efficient forgets the whole process of learning motor skills. It takes years to learn how to have steady hands while operating anything; adults with adult-sized hands can to exactly the same work Mr. Mikaelson believes, for some reason, only children can complete. I have yet to see Mr/ Mikaelson provide any instance of what a child might be able to do that an adult could not. In fact, I have yet to see any instance of where a child might even just be better at something than an adult in any of the industries given as an example. Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/14/2023 7:23 AM (OOC: The only thing I can think of is chimney cleaning, like all the way back in the Victorian Era.) Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 04/14/2023 10:10 PM In Kodiak, they are able to complete schooling early at age 16, which is intended to be covered by the initial clause regarding hours not being restricted if they no longer need schooling. RE: Total hours: I'm also happy to change the total hours restriction to 20 as has been mentioned in discussion so far, and there doesn't seem to be any objections, though if any do raise them before I get around to it! Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 04/14/2023 10:16 PM I'm indifferent to this, so happy to add it if there are no objections. That said, I wonder if people who have left school need the same written permission, or if they don't since they are able to work full-time at that point. Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 04/14/2023 10:17 PM I can work on the wording. The intention of course is that they shouldn't be 'fighting wars', or 'patrolliing the streets' etc. They should be doing other things, and learning. Antonin Artaud — 04/15/2023 3:26 AM Children at this age must be educated to be happy throughout their life They shouldn't be in factories Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/15/2023 7:38 AM
Education through experience is, for many people, far more useful then education in our schools. Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/15/2023 7:39 AM Do you have any comments about what I've found Mr. Mikaelson? Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/15/2023 7:39 AM
I have not yet the time to read through it all, unfortunately! Busy day at work yesterday. 😦 But I do look forward to it! W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 04/15/2023 7:40 AM My recommendation to my colleagues is to cease entertaining the clearly ignorant contributions of the President. children should be in school. They should not be cheap labour. Very little of a modern economy requires any physical input from children and very much of a modern economy requires considerable educational attributes accessible only from public or vocational schooling. Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/15/2023 7:44 AM Very well. Any objections on this? W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 04/15/2023 7:46 AM forgive me for not presently being exceptionally across the debate thus far but I would suggest that rights should either be entirely given or entirely removed. If an individual should have permission to work from the state, it should be a clear line in the sand. My preference would be that anyone 16 years of age or older should be individually of the personal decision to work or not. From before that age it should be disallowed, and after - permitted. I don't believe in a need for parents to be a part of this bureaucratic song and dance. debate on the specific age not withstanding, either someone is competent to self-assess or they are not. 16 is just my personal opinion Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/15/2023 8:55 AM I agree that someone who's old enough to work is also old enough to decide if they should work or not, though this isn't a hill I'll die on Maybe let employers decide if they want their employees to have permission from parents or not Mivod Hlaja [NUP] — 04/15/2023 8:55 AM I strongly disagree on that last point. If you let that happen, there will be children signing long term contracts. Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/15/2023 8:56 AM Fair W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 04/15/2023 8:57 AM Isn't it a major part of the amendment that youths are permitted to work from 15. My contribution is the age should be 16. I feel like this is the hill were meant to be on??? Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/15/2023 8:58 AM (OOC: I think I'm misunderstanding something (OOC: I'll re-read after I finish dinner Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/15/2023 9:40 AM I think... I think Ms. Esposito is agreeing with you, Mr. Ward. W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 04/15/2023 9:43 AM I agree, but I disagree that this isn't a question of direct import to the bill is what I'm saying - it is a directly relevant 'hill' Isabella Esposito (KWP) — 04/15/2023 9:58 AM (OOC: so I reread it three times and is definitely still misunderstanding something so I give up lol Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/15/2023 10:12 AM 15 or 16, either one works for me.
Many countries (or states/provinces) have laws allowing the employment of youth in certain industries if employed by their parents. For example, working at a restaurant owned by their father or on a farm owned by their mother. I think this should be written into the bill to protect small businesses that rely on their families to help run them while recognizing that these employees might not be above the age required by this legislation Alfonso Sadurin (DPPK) — 04/15/2023 6:47 PM I am in favor of employment of our youth because it builds skills and resilience, but not to the extent of exploitation. Erich Crysler -- Alsozar [UKN] — 04/16/2023 8:50 AM If a minor is no longer legally bound to the education system and doesn’t wish to re-enter it, I see no good reason to prevent them from entering the workforce. I’m in favor of this bill. Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/16/2023 9:12 AM Is everyone forgetting casual work? Alfonso Sadurin (DPPK) — 04/16/2023 8:00 PM The intent of the bill is to limit children to casual work Alfonso Sadurin (DPPK) — 04/16/2023 8:01 PM Alternatively, we could have a proposal in favor of streaming children into apprenticeships which is halfway training and halfway employment Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/16/2023 10:10 PM Yes, but some are of the opinion that if a child has nothing else to do they should be allowed to work. Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 04/16/2023 10:11 PM If the child no longer needs to go to school, they are exempt from the hours limitation. Does this cover it?
(OOC: RE: every other discussion so far, I'll re-read and share my thoughts / or do updates, as soon as I'm done with work and stuff right after work xD) Alfonso Sadurin (DPPK) — 04/16/2023 10:25 PM Child must be subject to compulsory education Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 04/16/2023 10:39 PM Yep and they are, compulsory education and exit points are laid out in the main state education act however so doesn't need to be mentioned here. Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 04/17/2023 8:37 AM I've made some edits relating to increasing the maximum weekly hours to 20, and added more detail to clause 4.6.2 as suggested.
It seems like the main open discussion relates to a few things - Working age. I personally believe 15 is the right age as that is approximately the penultimate year of schooling for Kodiakers not continuing into senior 'upper secondary' school. I will however follow the GAs desires here.
- Permissions - Mr Ward does provide a valid argument here where if we deem minors are of the right age to work, we should also deem them able to make said decision regarding work. After hearing said argument I find that I do agree with this sentiment. There was a potential issue raised with entrapping someone into a long term contract of unreasonable length but I feel we can mitigate this potential event by stipulating that they may only be employed as casuals, standard permanent part-time employees, or fixed-term contracts no longer than 1 year.
- Mr Kryos has posited that family run small businesses might wish to employ their children at an earlier age. I recognise that this is a plausible situation, however if we were to do this I would err on the side of caution and perhaps suggest that exemptions are to be applied for on a case by case basis, and cap the minimum age at 13 or 14 under these circumstances? Additionally, they are to be employed as employees with pay, benefits ,etc as per their employment status. The spirit of the bill after all remains that children should be in school or having a childhood, as much as possible. (OOC: If I missed anything feel free to shout out and repeat yourself!) Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/17/2023 9:54 AM I would say do not include a case-by-case basis, but do ensure an age limit (13) and part-time restrictions. I would also like to ensure that agricultural concerns are addressed. I think farms should be able to employ minors at 13 in non-hazardous employment Alfonso Sadurin (DPPK) — 04/19/2023 12:01 AM We cannot prevent families from helping out their small businesses Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/19/2023 1:36 AM Exactly! A 10 year old can swipe the floors and dust to help with cleaning of the store. Aaron Tonnesen - New Asden — 04/19/2023 6:19 AM Well that’s not official “employment” Anyone can be paid under the table. Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/20/2023 7:44 PM If there is no more constructive discussion, I motion for this proposal to head to vote. Mivod Hlaja [NUP] — 04/20/2023 8:46 PM The only thing I would recommend is changing 4.6.4 to all construction work, period. All construction work is inherently hazardous. Nelson Singh (Equitar) (CKA) — 04/20/2023 8:52 PM I used to live in Australia (OOC: Still do) and I believe construction work has acceptable levels of risk. As long as minors are not working on say electrical work or construction of a skyscraper, apprentice work is acceptable. Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/20/2023 9:12 PM It depends on what you define as construction. Is painting part of construction? That's a very safe job. Is pouring concrete footers or digging trenches part of construction? Also not very dangerous. Is drywall hanging or insulation installation (a fun phrase to say aloud) part of construction? Aside from the itchy side effects of insulation, not really hazardous. Framing a house? That's where I might say dangerous comes into play. Skyscraper construction? Also dangerous. There is a spectrum here. Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 04/22/2023 12:25 AM I will add the family clause tonight, from about 13 years of age.
There is indeed a spectrum, and much of construction will end up being classified as not suitable for minors (plus they are unlikely to be qualified for many forms of construction work). Kurdipam-akrobait-CKA — 04/22/2023 5:44 PM I think kids that are under 13 shouldnt work for the safety of our children Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/22/2023 6:31 PM
Who can say they know what is best for every child in the country? I know I can’t. Kurdipam-akrobait-CKA — 04/22/2023 7:11 PM Wait isnt this a regions Region* Oh or does this rely on all the countries in the region Well i cant know whats the best for them Kurdipam-akrobait-CKA — 04/22/2023 7:19 PM Even if some kids hate it and its not the best for them but its better for there safety And i think they shouldnt work on school hours Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/22/2023 10:50 PM This is a laughable argument. Laughable. The entire point of this body is to make decisions for the nation. It's not about knowing what is best; if we based it on that, we'd never get anything done. It's about making the decision that benefits the most while harming the least. One would think that the leader of the legislative body would know that. Kurdipam-akrobait-CKA — 04/22/2023 11:23 PM I think the place where the child is gonna work in they should test him for 1 week total to see if his fit or not so he cant damage himself or the place or his co workers Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/24/2023 8:21 AM
if there's no other discussion in the next 24 hours, I'll send this to a vote Braughn F. G. Kryos — 04/24/2023 8:58 PM I second that motion EasyPoll BOT
— 04/25/2023 9:14 AM
Question Do you support the Youth Employment Act of 653?
Choices 🇦 Aye 🇧 Nay 🇨 Abstain
Final Result 🇦 ▓▓▓▓▓▓░░░░ [18 • 62%] 🇧 ▓▓▓░░░░░░░ [10 • 34%] 🇨 ░░░░░░░░░░ [1 • 3%] 29 users voted
- alarm_clock: Poll already ended (3 days ago)
- spy: Anonymous Poll
- one: allowed choice
- lock: No other votes allowed
Allowed roles: @Assembly Member Poll ID: 5a7c6d35 Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/25/2023 9:14 AM
@Assembly Member Voting is now opened Richard Havtjer / D&P — 04/25/2023 11:13 AM For once in a lifetime, I'm not gonna abstain Kurdipam-akrobait-CKA — 04/28/2023 8:30 AM i am gonna watch until my cards auctions are done and until this election is done Klaus Mikaelson OP
— 04/28/2023 9:14 AM
with 18 votes in favor, 10 against and 1 abstention, this bill is declared passed, and will be archived in 24 hours