Talk:The Regional Flag Resolution, 658

The Regional Flag Resolution, 658 Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/25/2023 8:11 PM

Tabled by Vladimir Khlebnikov, as a independent members bill A ACT TO REMOVE THE CHRISTIAN CROSS FROM THE FLAG OF THE SERENE REPUBLIC Voting is currently set for the 9th of October https://kodiak.wiki/wiki/The_Regional_Flag_Resolution,_658 The Kodiak Republic Wiki The Regional Flag Resolution, 658 A ACT TO REMOVE THE CHRISTIAN CROSS FROM THE FLAG OF THE SERENE REPUBLIC Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/25/2023 8:11 PM

@Assembly Member debate is now open Jonn Stevens (DPPK)

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— 09/25/2023 8:12 PM

Braughn F. G. Kryos — 09/25/2023 8:18 PM I just... I don't understand this perspective. Since when has the Nordic cross as a vexillogical symbol on our flag been a) a representation of Christian faith or b) representative of our exclusivity of non-Christian religious groups, as the author implies. If the Kodiak Republic had, at the time of the creation of the flag, used the Nordic cross as a symbol of the nation's Christianity as opposed to a simple vexillogical symbol, there might be some agreement here. I understand the heritage of the Nordic cross as a Christian symbol historically, but I doubt that anyone would necessarily state that having a Nordic cross on a flag indicates the support of one religion over another or even the presence of Christianity in a nation. In my opinion, this would be just as good as saying green is exclusive to all those people who love the color red and should thus be removed from the flag in favor of a more inclusive color.

Jakob Karlsson - New Asden — 09/25/2023 8:45 PM I agree with Mr Kyros, I just don’t agree with the bill. I feel like most Kodiakers (religious and non religious) associate the cross in our flag with the nation rather than a direct reference to Christianity. Take a look at Sweden, for example. Everett747100 — 09/25/2023 8:46 PM bruh it looks like the Nordic flag there’s so many flags with crosses they just look cool

Anarchist Gear🌈⚧ (KWP) — 09/25/2023 9:18 PM I think we could probably make a better flag for the Kodiak Republic but the flag having a Nordic Cross in it doesn't make it bad

Josef Kovac — 09/25/2023 10:14 PM In addition to the points made above, there are also practicality concerns. The bill currently does not provide funding for the committee. Even if it did, I do not think a nation with our economic status should be funding such superficial bills.

Grant Shadbolt [CKA] — 09/25/2023 10:18 PM (For reference, the New Zealand flag referendum cost $26 million)

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/25/2023 10:20 PM

Yeah I really see no reason to change the flag, to my knowledge at least sense the beginning of the 7th republic this has been our flag. It seems weird to Change it now not to mention costly and time consuming. Many see this as a symbol of patriotic spirit, my self included and in all honesty I have never once looked at the flag and thought it, had the symbol of any religion on it. and while i believe in the strict separation of church and state this is not a very “religious” symbol that needs changing in my opinion. I don’t think any person considers it religious, Nor should they.

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/25/2023 10:23 PM It should probably be mentioned that when the new flag was adopted, the designer of the flag was themself an athiest

John Edwards [KWP] — 09/25/2023 11:41 PM We don't have an alternate flag to use in the event this goes through. Do we just have a plain green flag? How will the nation's colours be represented in the absence of blue? Whilst I could potentially support a flag referendum, there would need to be alternates on offer.

Everett747100 — 09/25/2023 11:41 PM I personally like our flag If we changed I would want to add a bear

John Edwards [KWP] — 09/25/2023 11:43 PM As do I, and my vote would be to keep the existing flag, but I am willing to see what is preferred by the citizens of the nation.

Daniel Anderson (UKN) — 09/26/2023 12:09 AM I don't really know what's the point of changing it since I don't really think the cross represents Christianity, it's not really Representative of the christians So I'm voting nay

Bill Simmons [NUP] — 09/26/2023 12:39 AM As mentioned by other members of the assembly, the cost of an alteration of the national flag has not been accounted for. Is it really worth investing potentially millions of florins in a new flag for an ostensible reason such as the one stated in the bill? However, I would be interested in what the general public thinks about the removal of the cross on the flag.

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/26/2023 2:25 AM I do think that for something as important as the national symbol that cost is not worth major concern. We should be able to unite behind one symbol, even one imperfect, knowing that it represents what we value. The phoenix and our continual resurrection from the clutches of crisis - the green stretch of our nation and its people, the blue valour of our democratic process and history, and the burning white hot fire of the truth of our revolution and the peace brought from its success. How these features present is less important than that we do in fact believe in the icon. The flag is the spirit of the nation in sketch. Art is subjective, but the impression is of our national soul.

Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 09/26/2023 2:44 AM The Kodiak flag has a very long and storied history. It should stay as is, and in no way was it designed to represent any singular group of peoples but all of Kodiak and its history.

Sly Shakespeare - Arlandova — 09/26/2023 2:44 AM yeah I vote nay I dont think it represents Christianity and again, the designer was an atheist

Avakael — 09/26/2023 6:14 AM There's no point in supporting a resolution like this unless there's a widely more popular alternative flag that we actually want to swap to.

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/27/2023 7:42 AM Lol I know the argument is sorta random But idk

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/27/2023 7:45 AM If you believe in the proposal, you should defend it. the game of mock government is the entire deliberation so you should try to make of it the best argument you can even when others disagree. Addressing those disagreements, or dismissing them as unpersuasive, is part of the nature of government.

Braughn F. G. Kryos — 09/27/2023 8:23 AM If even the author is unable to take this proposal seriously, I suggest that he withdraw it from the consideration of the Assembly so that we might focus on real business. But I agree with Mr. Ward. A proposal is not made lightly. If the author believes the argument, it's not random, it's the author's argument. I will always encourage an author to either respond to arguments or make changes reflective of those arguments.

Jakob Karlsson - New Asden — 09/27/2023 12:26 PM I motion a vote to withdraw this bill from the floor

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/27/2023 12:28 PM

I mean that’s for the author to decide I believe. the best you can do i believe is you can motion for a early vote.

Jakob Karlsson - New Asden — 09/27/2023 12:45 PM Oh ok. My bad. I couldn’t rremember if an assembly member had that authority or not… but I assumed so. I’ll let the author decide

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/27/2023 1:30 PM

It’s fine again you could just motion for a early vote, witch given a member seconds the motion I would accept it.

Jakob Karlsson - New Asden — 09/28/2023 9:02 PM With that being said i motion an early vote Josef Kovac — 09/28/2023 9:03 PM I second.

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/28/2023 9:03 PM

In due course the vote will be held in 24 hours, if there are no objections

Braughn F. G. Kryos — 09/28/2023 9:22 PM I object. I believe the author has not had appropriate time to respond to the arguments presented. I know I personally would like to hear from him further before we take this legislation to a vote. I am unsure of how other members may feel, but I believe some should feel the same. To that end, @Vladimir Khlebnikov, I’m curious as to what further arguments you may present for this legislation or what changes you may be interested in making regarding the text, given the feedback.

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/28/2023 9:33 PM

Hmm good point but the author technically did already comment. But in due course If the author @Vladimir Khlebnikov comments in the 24 hour period before the vote. And requests more time I will agree

Josef Kovac — 09/28/2023 9:35 PM The President cannot ignore an objection to an early vote because of a technically. Kryos has objected to the early vote, so the motion should fail.

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/28/2023 9:38 PM

As Has been pointed out by the chancellor in the resolution to expel it’s at the prerogative of the president. On weather or not to accept objections I believe. And Even so I would require at least one more objection to the early vote. To consider it

Josef Kovac — 09/28/2023 9:40 PM In that case, I withdraw my support of the motion and issue an objection. Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/28/2023 9:41 PM

Ok then given the other objection I’ll deny the motion to call a early vote. Business will continue as usual

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/29/2023 4:34 AM Nah i made this proposal only to see how to make proposals

Braughn F. G. Kryos — 09/29/2023 6:16 AM So you have no intention of actually pursuing this legislation? sigh In that case, Mr. President, I have no objections to bringing this matter to an early vote.

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/29/2023 9:29 AM

Ok then I’m just going to assume Jacob karlsson still wants a early vote and take your motion as a second. then in that case if there are no objections the vote will be held in 24 hours I’ll start the timer when I get home in a few hours.

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/30/2023 4:18 AM Yes EasyPoll BOT

— 09/30/2023 11:57 AM

Question do you approve of The Regional Flag Resolution, 658

Choices 🇦 Aye 🇧 Nay 🇨 Abstain

Final Result 🇦 ▓░░░░░░░░░ [3 • 13%] 🇧 ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓░░ [18 • 78%] 🇨 ▓░░░░░░░░░ [2 • 9%] 23 users voted

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alarm_clock: Poll already ended (3 days ago)

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Allowed roles: @Assembly Member Poll ID: ecccdd94 Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/30/2023 11:58 AM

@Assembly Member voting is now open for The Regional Flag Resolution, 658 Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— Yesterday at 9:37 AM

@Assembly Member with a margin of 3 Aye 18 against and 2 abstaining this resolution is declared rejected Image