Talk:Amendment to The Policing Act, 654

Amendment to The Policing Act, 654 Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/01/2023 3:00 PM

Tabled by John Cray, MGA, DPPK, as an independent member's bill. An Amendment to drive down the costs of The Policing Act, 645. Voting is currently set for the 14th of September https://kodiak.wiki/wiki/Amendment_to_The_Policing_Act,_654 The Kodiak Republic Wiki Amendment to The Policing Act, 654 An Amendment to drive down the costs of The Policing Act, 645. ACTIONED on ## month ####, ## Aye, ## Nay, ## Abstain.

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/01/2023 3:01 PM

@Assembly Member debate is now open for the Amendment to The Policing Act, 654

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/01/2023 6:46 PM Since the bill doesn't necessarily make it clear what is being done, here is a summary:

Lowers National Police funding by 25% from 1,000 million to 750 million Lowers Community Police funding 24% from 500 million to 380 million Lowers the State Bureau of Investigations funding 33% from 600 million to 400 million Lowers anti-corruption allocations 30% from 20 million to 14 million Lowers drug/scam wealth investigations 33% from 15 million to 10 million Broadly, I am in favour of the bill, but I think we should remove the reductions for anticorruption and wealth investigations. I also think we should limit reductions to no more than 25%.

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/02/2023 12:01 AM I agree to lowering police funds, but isn't 24%~33% too much?

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:01 AM Given the current budget issues, no. I think 25% is an appropriate amount

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/02/2023 12:01 AM I agree to this But lower the limit to 20% 25% is way too much imo

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:03 AM We will have to disagree.

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/02/2023 12:03 AM Wouldn't slowly lowering the fund over time be better?

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:04 AM debt to GPD is 100% and rising, the state expenditure is 180% of revenue. No, slowly wouldn't be better

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/02/2023 12:05 AM But wouldn't a dramatic cut in police funds like this harm stability and security?

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:06 AM Wouldn't a state default, lowering police funds to 0 be worse?

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/02/2023 12:08 AM 20% cuts in police funds instead of 25% cuts won't cause the state to default Why not a 20% cut, some time to adapt, then a 15% cut?

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:11 AM we need to save 100 billion florins. These cuts save 2.3 billion. Yes, a smaller cut would make a default more likely. especially a 20% reduction from 25 to 20 % its a half billion dollar difference

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/02/2023 12:12 AM Hmm Still, policing is too important to the Republic for a dramatic cut of 25% Somewhat between 20%~23% would be enough

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:16 AM I would be happy to exchange the ratio in keeping more community police while taking more away from the national police - but I'm going to want the reduction to be shifted over entirely 120 million back into community policing, 120 further away from national policing

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/02/2023 12:18 AM This I agree with But with different numbers

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:25 AM The ratio you feel is better switched (120, 100, 80) isn't important to me. But overall I want a 25% reduction.

John Edwards [KWP] — 09/02/2023 12:43 AM Last time I looked at police spending, we were nearly at dictatorial levels (virtually maxxed out on the sim). Is that still the case? A better way to put it would be "is our police spending, representative of our population or above it?"

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 12:51 AM Police spending has only increased over the preceeding terms, usually through the creation of new sub departments

0ttobeuren [Brundstadt] — 09/02/2023 1:11 AM Under what department is The National Kodiak Police? Also is there any organization/system to overview the National Kodiak Police if there's something wrong happening?

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/02/2023 1:12 AM The anti corruption commission investigates police misconduct. The National Police is part of the Ministry of Justice, Law, and Order

0ttobeuren [Brundstadt] — 09/02/2023 1:13 AM Alright then, i have no question.

The Republic of Arcasis (DPPK) — 09/02/2023 2:31 AM I have no problem with this so Aye

SRG16( Northern Cagas) — 09/02/2023 3:14 AM Abstain

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/02/2023 5:09 AM

I have to ask the same thing @John Edwards [KWP] asked first is it representative to the pop and another factor is what our current crime rate is Also police funding is only 10th on the list funding wise 25% does certainly seem drastic

John Edwards [KWP] — 09/02/2023 6:11 AM Last time I was in cabinet, police funding was far in excess of representation. There were officers on every corner and they were all driving sports cars. If it has only increased since then a recalculation is desperately in order.

From an OOC perspective, maxing out the sim also leaves almost no room for adjustment later on. Early on it was difficult to calculate appropriate funding levels and some departments got funded out of all proportion like police and education. It's what led to the current crisis and this could be viewed as rebalancing the scales to a more appropriate level.

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/04/2023 6:36 PM I would like to motion that we force amend the bill to remove section 2.2, and adjust section 2.1 to 450 million (instead of 400 million). this would create a threshold reduction of only 25% but only of the large departments

Braughn F. G. Kryos — 09/04/2023 6:38 PM Is the author no longer present in the Assembly?

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/04/2023 6:40 PM

That would require two members to second the motion other than Magnus just so the assembly is aware

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/04/2023 6:41 PM he is not. ((Account deleted))

Braughn F. G. Kryos — 09/04/2023 6:41 PM I second the motion

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/04/2023 6:43 PM Given that the author is no longer present, I would like to request ownership

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/04/2023 6:48 PM

Sense the member is not available and frankly i don’t want to take up the bill I will transfer ownership to the chancellor

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/04/2023 6:48 PM I'll wait 24 hours for any objections to the transfer but otherwise tomorrow will enforce my proposed amendment

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/04/2023 6:53 PM

@The Public Service what is our current crime rate? The Public Service — 09/04/2023 7:54 PM This is a complex question. The simple answer is "High and decreasing". Violent crime has been falling for the last 5 years as employment has stabilised, education has risen, and racial discrimination has fallen. Petty crime is still very high, but decreasing. This is mostly driven by the volumes of poverty still found in the republic, especially in urban centres. Policing can decrease crime, but it cannot influence the causes of crime. Corruption has fallen dramatically, which can be attributed to investigatory bodies and recently acquired police powers.

W Magnus Ward (NUP)

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— 09/04/2023 11:22 PM

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/06/2023 12:00 AM I will go ahead and claim ownership of the bill as there have been no objections, but I will need a day to complete the revisions. ((IRL is very busy today))

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/07/2023 7:30 AM Ok, the amendments are made. I have removed the reduction for wealth orders and anticorruption measures. I have kept the reductions for police departments and community policing. I have lowered the reduction from 33% to 25% for the SBI. I have not actioned the suggestion of moving a ratio of community policing cuts onto the general policing units as the suggestion was only supported by one MGA and I am awaiting other comments from this house.

Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 09/08/2023 10:36 PM I welcome the removal of cuts to wealth orders and anticorruption. I'm inclined to agree that budgetary cuts are necessary. However I will support the lowered reduction, to promote a softer reduction so the impact isn't as great.

If we were to reduce more funding, having looked at the suggestion around community policing - I would prefer this than more dramatic reductions. Community policing is a fairly important strategy and should be funded well enough given its importance to building relationships with communities and reducing crime.

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/08/2023 10:37 PM with 120 million being the present reduction for Community policing, would you prefer say, 60 in reduction with the remaining 60 shifted over to the national police?

Charlotte Groves (Juliette)[KWP] — 09/08/2023 10:45 PM Yes I would find that a good compromise to still needing to reduce spend but lessening the impact. That 60 million is likely more impactful to community policing initiatives relative to the total national police spend. I would support such a 'shifting' of funds.

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/08/2023 10:47 PM amended Image

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/10/2023 10:53 PM Are there any comments regarding the new text of the bill?

Vladimir Khlebnikov — 09/11/2023 8:16 AM No sir no

W Magnus Ward (NUP) — 09/12/2023 7:58 AM Seeing that I think the majority of issues have been addressed, and much time has elapsed for opposition to make themselves known, I motion the proposal be put to vote.

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/12/2023 11:03 AM

If someone would second the members motion i will accept

Grant Shadbolt [CKA] — 09/12/2023 4:17 PM I second the motion.

Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/12/2023 4:18 PM

Ok then if there are no objections the vote will begin in 24 hours EasyPoll BOT

— 09/13/2023 7:32 PM

Question the Amendment to The Policing Act, 654

Choices 🇦 Aye 🇧 Nay 🇨 Abstain

Final Result 🇦 ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓░░░ [13 • 65%] 🇧 ▓▓▓░░░░░░░ [6 • 30%] 🇨 ▓░░░░░░░░░ [1 • 5%] 20 users voted

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Allowed roles: @Assembly Member Poll ID: fda11bfb Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— 09/13/2023 7:33 PM

@Assembly Member voting is now open for the Amendment to The Policing Act, 654 Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— Yesterday at 8:52 PM

@Assembly Member only 24 hours left on The Amendment to The Policing Act, 654 make sure to vote! Jonn Stevens (DPPK) OP

— Today at 8:24 PM

@Assembly Member with a margin of 13 Aye 6 Against and 1 abstaining this act is declared passed Image