Talk:Numerous And Low Income Families Aid Act

From The Kodiak Republic Wiki

Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette) OP

— 09/21/2024 1:10 AM

Tabled by MGA Antonio Recio Rufián as an independent members bill.

Numerous And Low Income Families Aid Act

Replacement to The Children and Dependents Payment Act (630): https://kodiak.wiki/wiki/The_Children_and_Dependents_Payment_Act_(630)

An Act to provide financial support to families with less resources and/or with a big number of children.

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https://kodiak.wiki/wiki/Numerous_And_Low_Income_Families_Aid_Act

Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette) OP

— 09/21/2024 1:11 AM

@Assembly Member I declare debate open for the Numerous And Low Income Families Aid Act.

Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette) OP

— 09/21/2024 1:53 AM

I also invite @Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] to share his reasonings regarding the proposed bill.

Tiberius Brown — 09/21/2024 2:13 AM ((Fewer resources))

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— 09/21/2024 8:29 AM

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/21/2024 9:12 AM The reasons I presented this bill is because the current one is a huge expense and also a possible money loophole to be abused. The money offered per child basically cleared every single cost that a child could possibly have plus more, which is unreasonable for just an aid. This is why I wish to redirect this aid to big families that need to take care of more children and families that do have a lower income and do need that extra help, separately.

J.F. Sassoon [SHRIMP] — 09/22/2024 12:51 AM I shall make comments shortly, Madame President.

Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette) OP

— 09/23/2024 12:48 AM

While Mr Sassoon gets his notes in order, perhaps others in the assembly would like to take the opportunity to speak?

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 4:13 AM Real glad everyone here has no complaints! Only some more hours and we should be ready to move to vote then

Joseph Fala (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 6:45 AM I have a real problem with this bill, This is literally a funding cut. You lower then amount of benefits you receve by F500 then spread it out to a little more people. Taking into account inflation. Because this bill hasn't been updated, families have been losing more and more money since 630 and now you want to make them stretch there money even more? Tiberius Brown — 09/23/2024 7:27 AM The SHRIMPists seem only to desire to cut funding for social programs. They have no other motive.

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 8:58 AM They were getting 24.000 florins per kid, how were they losing so much? The cuts are needed because the excessive aid they receive per child practically covered all costs and more for children, which is unreasonable to do from an economic perspective. Not every family needs that much money per child, and only big families and low income families need financial support.

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 8:34 PM How can you decide how much is too much for kids? Kids are expensive with all their needs and what they need and what they may want.It’s unreasonable to decide what is enough and not enough for kids regardless of their situation, sure maybe it should be more assistance to big families and poorer families but my original point stands. How can you just sit here and pick how much parents should get for their children to survive

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 8:39 PM The government already does though? Aid is meant to support families, not take care of the financial expenses of an entire family member. I'm not stating I should decide how much families get to maintain their children, this act is stopping the unnecesary spending which basically attempts to cover most if not all the expenses of a child, which is insane.

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 8:44 PM Aid is supposed to support families but what you’re doing is choosing what you think is enough for families to support their children. The financial expenses of a child are far too greater to simply pick and choose how much they can get. This acts takes money away from people who need it the most and cuts it down to the amount you think they deserve.

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 8:44 PM If a family with a child and needs support because they have a low income together, they'd receive a low income family aid, if a family has a low income while having numerous children they would instead receive a generous aid for each child, it's far more reasonable than paying for all the costs of having a child

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 8:46 PM Are you deaf or you just like to stay in a state of denial? The ones who need it the most already get an extremely high amount of aid per child, it's unsustainable

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 8:47 PM Is that something all members think and agree on? Or is it just something you think?

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 8:47 PM They would receive an amount of aid that actually does support them, instead of giving two or three times the money they already make

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 8:48 PM Tell me, does a family with one child need an aid per child as much as a family of four?

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 8:55 PM Not as much but that should not mean cutting funding for those with one child. Children can be born with deficits and things like down syndrome more commonly known as Autism. Which in case you did not know, they cost way more on average than the average child! This cuts vital funding parents get to help support their families!

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:10 PM Seems like I know far more of our legislation than our current foreign affairs minister. And maybe also better reading comprehension.

This doesn't cut support to low income families with one or two children, it in fact moves it to low income family aid.

Also, we have legislation to aid families with children, or adult individuals that have disabilities, that grant them financial aid.

This isn't the only legislation that tries to help these people, and these arguments you've moved to proves you're disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing with a political rival.

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:14 PM Right this cuts aid for people who aren't low income which is something I am against for. Every parent regardless should get government aid and more for those who are low income. I disagree with you because you are cutting part of Welfare that people rely on regardless of their income!

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:15 PM So we went from complaining that the aid wouldn't get to those who need it the most to now complaining that not everyone, regardless of if they need it or not, must receive aid? Is this the KSDP could do? Subsidization and aid from the state is FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT, not for everyone. If you expect to pay everyone the same amount of aid, I can see us going back to near default

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:21 PM It should be for everyone and those who need it. It is insane that you are trying to decide how much families get regardless of their income. All parents pay a lot to support their children and what you're doing is taking funding away from some to put more for lower income family. They all should get Government aid from us to help pay for their children. (((I am trying my hardest as I am not that good at rp)))

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:22 PM ((At this point you either accept you're on the wrong or double down, because you're sounding like the neoliberal and I'm sounding like the social democrat))

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:24 PM I'll never understand the mental gymnastics you did to get to this point. We don't grant aid for everyone, we grant aid for the ones that may need it. I'm making sure only the ones that need it receive aid. You're opposing this because... You want to give aid to even the richest people?

Joseph Fala (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:24 PM Something I want to talk about to is that this bill raises the amount of children in order for a family to apply for funds to 3 and not 1

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:24 PM That is indeed the requirement to receive aid for the Numerous Family Aid. Then you also have the Low Income Family Aid, granting financial aid too, but not per child.

Joseph Fala (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:25 PM Do you know how many families get cut off from aid because of this requirement

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:25 PM Do you people read the bills that are presented?

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:25 PM Do you know how they can apply for the low income aid Please Re-read the bill if you already did Stop missing details left and right to make dumb arguments that could be avoided if you simply read it properly Part of your job is reading these bills Not ignoring them and complaining senselessly

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:27 PM 2.2 : "Numerous families may apply to receive the financial aid of ₣2000 per child if the family posesses a combined income of less than or equal to ₣30,000, and a total of ₣1250 per child if the family posesses a combined income of between ₣30,001 and ₣60,000."

Joseph Fala (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:28 PM The bill also limits the amount of funds.

So if you have 1 or 2 kids, you only get F1500 fixed and no more Then after that is 2000 per child Whats the logic behind that

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:29 PM Surprise surprise, children are more expensive to take care the more you have!

Joseph Fala (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:29 PM It used to be 2000 per child no matter what, why change this?

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:29 PM Because it would mean 24.000 per child For families that made 30.000 or less Almost the total amount they make on financial aid You expect this to be sustainable? Each family that makes that much getting almost double the amount they make for having one child? You expect the state budget to cover all the expenses the citizens have?

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:32 PM As I am glad to be back in the capital building after being away for so long, I am glad my members who people questioned for being quiet have now taken the debate helm.

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:32 PM Some have done it poorly so far, I might add.

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:33 PM This bill is definitely a budget cut. I do not completely agree with the Mr. Rufian. A whole 1 billion florins off the fund is ridiculous

Jack Benjamin (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:35 PM The Bottom line is that you're cutting funding for some families so that we can save money that is supposedly way too much or as you said it, unsustainable. We do not need a budget cut for this at all, why is shrimp so keen on more budget cuts than ever?

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:39 PM It's not an actual cut It's dividing the budget The 1 billion is moved to the low income families aid There's no real cut at all, I still don't understand what you people keep saying Just another way it shows nobody reads the bills apparently

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:42 PM For the love of God stop with the political rivalry for once! We're here to work for the people not argue against the other party's members!

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:44 PM I did read the bill, however thank you for enlightening me on where the money went from the other fund. Can you explain why create the low income families aid?

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 9:51 PM Alright now that I understand the bill more and read your comments from before. I will be voting down the bill. The fact that you are going to put more funding towards higher income families than lower income is upsurd. I would be more incline to agree with the bill if only 500 million florins had been taken to this new fund, however you have taken 1 billion and cut it up to the higher income families that do not need this aid. major adjustments need to be made or I believe this bill shall die where it stands

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 9:53 PM What? This is my bill's income brackets Image Image This is the current working legislature's brackets Image I'm increasing the bracket for low income aid from 30.000 a year to 40.000 a year And removing the highest income bracket for the numerous families aid Which reaches to a max of 120.000 I can agree to move some of the funding from one aid to the other, that's not an issue if you believe the change has to be made

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 10:05 PM Now that's a discrepancy, why do we have two different funds for families under F30,000 or F40,000 income brackets? I think in the end, families will gradually overload Low Income Family Aid applications while not applying for the Numerous Families Fund. I believe one singular fund should be there and just add on higher income families to the fund pool. Now I am 50/50 on that there is a cut off for the Numerous Families Fund where it applies only for families with 3 children or more. However, many of these families with less than 3 children, do need aid. I remember friends of mine back home in the union who benefited from the extra F2000 for their little boy when he was under them.

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 10:08 PM I doubt they'd choose the low income family aid ober the numerous family fund

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 10:10 PM Even when you are excluding 1-2 child families?

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 10:13 PM If they can't take one fund, they'll receive the other I don't know what's so hard to see

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 10:14 PM we are here to give all families of vast descendants and different income brackets a chance to live better off than they were yesterday. I believe this bill has a good idea, but the wording and funding needs some good changes, @Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] if you'd like, I wouldn't mind discussing it privately for a moment

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 10:14 PM ((Hold on, I think I got an idea to solve some of this))

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/23/2024 10:32 PM The following changes have been made:

The funding for the Numerous Family Aid has been changed from ₣500.000.000 quarterly to ₣725.000.000 quarterly. A new bracket has been made in the Numerous Family Aid for those families who have between ₣60.001 and ₣90.000. The funding for the Low Income Family Aid has been changed from ₣1.000.000.000 quarterly to ₣775.000.000 quarterly. Would anyone else like to comment on the bill or the recent changes?

Jack Williams (KSDP) — 09/23/2024 10:36 PM Walks back into the chamber right after Rufian. Satisfied with the discussion

Ewan Vraer — 09/24/2024 1:30 AM Ooc: Can someone give me a quick breakdown of the kodiak economy (Average income, gdp, dominant industries)

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/24/2024 1:31 AM ((We don't have an economic report since 654))

Ewan Vraer — 09/24/2024 1:31 AM link?

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/24/2024 1:32 AM https://kodiak.wiki/wiki/Kodiak_Government_Reports#Demographic,_Political,_and_Budget_Reports The Kodiak Republic Wiki Kodiak Government Reports

Antonio Recio Rufián [SHRIMP] — 09/26/2024 6:11 PM There seems to not have been any debate since the changes, so I believe we should proceed to vote @Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette)

Christopher Blackadder II [NUP] — 09/26/2024 6:11 PM I second

Redmin P. Apple (SHRIMP) — 09/26/2024 6:16 PM I third

CzarFish — 09/26/2024 9:34 PM I...fourth?

Dakota Bones (SHRIMP) — 09/26/2024 10:51 PM Hello Mr. Second, Mr. Third, and Mr. Fourth!

Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette) OP

— 09/27/2024 12:25 AM

I believe we have exhausted this debate and accept the motion. The vote will be started momentarily. EasyPoll APP

— 09/27/2024 12:27 AM

Question Numerous And Low Income Families Aid Act

Choices

letter_a: Aye
letter_b: Nay
letter_c: Abstain

Final Result

letter_a: ▓▓▓▓░░░░░░ [12 • 41%]
letter_b: ▓▓▓▓░░░░░░ [13 • 45%]
letter_c: ▓░░░░░░░░░ [4 • 14%]

29 votes from 29 users

Settings

stopwatch: Poll already ended (16 hours ago)
anonymous: Anonymous Poll
one: allowed choice
lock: No other votes allowed

Poll ID: 70591e20

Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette) OP

— 09/27/2024 12:27 AM

@Assembly Member Voting has commenced for the Numerous And Low Income Families Aid Act. Ensure you have read the proposed act at the very least before you vote.

Billy-Club Barber (PSV) — 09/27/2024 8:06 AM I'm still deeply suspicious of us lowering welfare funding after a war and during an economic downturn. It's like timing specifically set to harm. Why aren't we having any "groundbreaking" attempts to improve employment before we bury our families and unemployed Just a clearly sociopathic intent

Joanna Sousa KWP (Juliette) OP

— Today at 11:26 AM

The proposed act has failed to pass, with 12 Ayes, 13 Nays, and 4 Abstains.

The debate will be archived in the next 24 hours.

Billy-Club Barber (PSV) — Today at 11:26 AM sorry I don't remember posting this after the vote started. mmust have been some phone coverage issue

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