Talk:The Public Hospitals and Healthcare Act (635)

Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 TO BE DEBATED: https://kodiak.fandom.com/wiki/The_Public_Hospitals_and_Healthcare_Act_(635%29

Proposed for debate to the General Assembly by @Ulrykk von Guelderlaand, a resolution to enact a law to nationalise emergency care departments and provide free access to citizens. @Assembly Members are now free to comment. Ulrykk von Guelderlaand pinned a message to this channel. See all pinned messages . — 02/12/2021 Akecheta — 02/12/2021 I think the Tax Rate for 120k Florins should be lowerd from 65%. If a citizen earns 120k florins a year, then 78k of that amount will taken out of that earnings and that citizen will be earning 42k. Could we change the tax rate from 65% to 55%? The citizen will be earning 54k and the amount taken out is 66k Florins. Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 That is an incorrect reading of that tax rate. It's not 65% of 120k, its 65% of that tax bracket Akecheta — 02/12/2021 that's only a 24k Florin Difference. Akecheta — 02/12/2021 what is a tax bracket Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 1.2 – The first ₣15,000 of Income shall be tax free 1.2 - ₣15,000 - ₣30,000 shall be taxed at 18% 1.3 - ₣30,000 - ₣60,000 shall be taxed at 35% 1.4 - ₣60,000 - ₣120,000 shall be taxed at 49% 1.5 - ₣120,000 and over shall be taxed at 65%" if you make 30k, then only the last 15k of that is taxed at 18%, not the whole 30k if you make 120k, then 15k is tax free, 15k is 18%, 30k is 35%, and 60k is 49% Akecheta — 02/12/2021 OH. Ok. oops. Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 Happy to clarify 🙂 Martang B. Eðeltreow — 02/12/2021 It's easy to misunderstand; it boggles my brain every time I try to grapple with it Akecheta — 02/12/2021 Yes. I would change the wording of the laws of the Kodiak Republic to make it easier to understand. But that can be discussed in a different channel. Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 So the tax cost before deductions for a person making 120k would be 40170, or 33.46% Akecheta — 02/12/2021 I am very confused by what you said. I am very bad at math. And when you speak like that, my brain hurts, Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 poor people taxed less, rich people taxed more. everyone taxed the same rate, if you make more, you pay more Notwithstanding; this is a debate about healthcare and an increase in taxes to pay for that, not a debate to change the extant tax system Tim/Vikstein — 02/12/2021 Its pretty simple too, if $10,000 is taxed at 10% then 10,001+ is taxed at 20%. If you make 12,000 only 2,000 is taxed at 20% In the simplest way possible to explain Grand Duchy of Lovendara — 02/12/2021 (Wish I was good in statistics) Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 I would prefer if we moved the questions about how taxes work to the 🎇-lobby as this debate is meant to be about public health. The Greatest of All Time — 02/12/2021 Is that meaning that the first 15,000 florin of all income is tax free or that those with a total income of under 15000 dont pay tax? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 02/12/2021 I would prefer if we moved the questions about how taxes work to the 🎇-lobby as this debate is meant to be about public health. The Greatest of All Time — 02/12/2021 sure The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 If I understand correctly, we are taking over every facility regarding health? Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 "A resolution to nationalise all emergency departments extant within private clinics and hospitals within the Kodiak Republic." So essentially private hospitals and clinics will still exist privately, but emergency care is universal and publicly funded. At least that's my understanding. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 So we have quite the control over them? Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 The government wouldn't "control" these departments, per say. The government would just be funding them. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Meaning we have influence Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 I suppose one could say that, yes The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Wouldnt that make some people mad? Actzally nevermind We ARE funding them Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 Yes, the government would be funding emergency care to assure no citizen is left without it because of an inability to pay. This legislation would likely be largely popular. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Its kinda like free heath care? Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 Free Emergency Care, basically. Unless I'm misunderstanding the proposal. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 So if someone cant afford it, its free! Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 Surely thats better than the alternative. However, the proposal also requires citizens buy private emergency health insurance, and amends the current tax rates to help pay for it. I recommend reading the proposal through the wiki link that Ulrykk provided. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 I did, I dont really understand it, thats why im asking, and is the insurance necessary Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 Truthfully, you'd get a better answer from the author of the legislation. @Ulrykk von Guelderlaand. Best to get it straight from the horses mouth lol. It'll be a few hours before he's awake though. Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 Correction: the access to medical care is free for all citizens regardless of ability to pay; insurance is a requirement for noncitizens living in kodiak Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 Thank you for the correction, apologies. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 But citizens living do not need to have it? And forcing non citizens to make it necessary of getting insurance? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 Citizens will not be required to purchase insurance to access ER care. All non citizens who live in Kodiak for longer than 3 months must purchase insurance The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Wouldnt that make some tourists mad? Its three months yeah, but still Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 If they live here longer than 3 months they aren't tourists They are residents. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Than what are they? Than normal citizens have to take insurance too Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 A citizen is not the same as a resident The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 A normal citizen is a resident no? Why is that? Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 But a resident isn't necessarily a citizen. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Well I dont know, im just not happy forcing "residents" to take insurance(even tho its my best economical sector) Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 It's not forcing them; non citizens don't have an obligation to remain in Kodiak. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 But than they will have insurance always, wouldnt that be a waste of money? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 If they don't want to purchase health insurance, they may return to their country of origin The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Wait a seconf So if they don't buy insurance, we basically kick them out of the kodiak?? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 I get the feeling you're missing an important point heee Residents is a term for a long term legal immigrant. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Kicking immigrants? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 Nothing in the act says we kick them out. They must pay for insurance to cover the cost of their emergency care If they don't pay, the government will bill their ER care directly to them The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Ah, alright than Just "forcing" insurance was weird for me, but I understand Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 03/12/2021 Obamacare has entered the chat Only kidding lol Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 It's the same system to France UK, NZ and Aus. Non citizens must cover the cost of access to public healthcare unless and until they become a citizen The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Meh, okay Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 My annual insurance as a non citizen for access to the public health system was 350 AUD The Democratic States Of Slatium — 03/12/2021 Mhm Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 Equal to about 15 hours at the minimum wage Zoque Fotekh — 03/12/2021 It helps fund the public healthcare system and ensures that people from neighbouring nations aren't abusing our nations healthcare system. Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 03/12/2021 So if I'm understanding the problem you both have ID'd here, you're unhappy that the act doesn't make emergency care free for non-Kodiakers? The Greatest of All Time — 05/12/2021 No Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 05/12/2021 In 3 years we increased police funding by an amount 800% the price of this policy This policy is also cost neutral against the tax increase Tim/Vikstein — 05/12/2021 I support this resolution. I can’t really find any downsides to this proposal Zoque Fotekh — 05/12/2021 Not really my place to suggest this but @The Greatest of All Time, do you have an amendment to suggest? Maybe a cost adjustment that we could debate? The Greatest of All Time — 05/12/2021 I changed my mind This sounds fine Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 06/12/2021 Perfect gif. Well done 😂 Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 I'm not seeing much more debate here, and for the most part discussion appears to be in support. @Assembly Member are there any amendments or new points people would like to raise or are we happy to go to a vote? frenkimaster99 — 06/12/2021 I think we are ready to go vote👍 The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Im not happy to go to vote, but I have no real reason to object Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 Why are you not happy to go to vote? The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Dont think its the brightest idea Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 What part of the bill do you think is a bad idea The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 I dont like the insurance part Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 What do you want instead The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Im not saying to remove it, i just want a different version of it Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 what do you want instead The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Maybe reform the insurance policy? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 I don't understand. You need to explain what you want it to do instead The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Im not happy with the current idea with insurance, i dont want it gone, i would like to have it, but in a diffrent way, but i dont know how, thats why i didnt want to object Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 I am not trying to be pushy, I'm just trying to understand. What is it that you don't like about it? we can't really debate a replacement if you don't have one. The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 3.1 - All non-citizens residing in Kodiak for a period 91 days or longer are hereby obligated to purchase emergency services insurance from their choice of private insurer. Feeling that this can be changed Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 to what would you change it? The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Maybe increase the day limit, or remove it and not "forcing" residents to have it Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 Ok, sure. Why do you want that change? The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 I dont like forcing non citizens for something they might not want, there are people who dont like insurance, especially health insurance Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 So you want the government to provide emergency care for free for visitors? The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 No, you told me about it before, we just bill them If I understood that Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 What if they go home? to their country of origin? The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 We dont let them go, its their responsibility Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 I don't think we can imprison foreign-citizens without angering their governments The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 I never said we imprison them, we just dont let them go unless they pay, its their fault, at that point insurance should be mandatory Im not sure what i said there Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 So what does not imprisoning them, but not letting them leave the country, look like? The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Its not our fault they didnt pay right? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 Yeah, but that's why we require the insurance The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 We dont have to make it mandatory Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 But if its not mandatory, they likely won't pay The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Than could we atleast increase the day limit? If we have to make it mandatory Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 Can you explain to me, beacuse I'm not sure I understand, how that would fix the problem with non-payment The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 From the debate, i agree with the insurance, if needed to be mandatory, we could just increase the day limit, if some funky stuff happened by those days we could "force" them insurance Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 define force them insurance for me The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 If they try to leave, we make them pay it Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 So, if a poor family travels to Kodiak with their kid, and the kid has an asthma attack and ends up in hospital. They are still poor. How do we get money out of them? Grand Duchy of Lovendara — 06/12/2021 Hmmm, private industry subsidies? The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Than how are they going to get insurance at the start? If they are poor Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 If they don't buy the insurance, they will not be issued a visa for longer than 90 days if they overstay their visa, they will be deported The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 How will they pay the insurance from the start? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 If they cannot pay, they will not be allowed into Kodiak The aren't a "resident" if they don't live here The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 That is the problem We are departing im immigrants? For not paying money to us? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 no one is allowed to enter the nation without a Visa document The document tells you how long you are allowed to stay If you stay longer, you are forced to leave because you signed the document The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 You pay with the visa? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 correct you do not live here unless you pay the fees first The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 So poor people cant enter here, even if there are harsh times in our neighboring countries Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 Internationally, refugees are not immigrants its a different class of movement But generally speaking: yes, if the only reaosn they want to enter the country is to be less poor, then most nations reject them The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 I dont like that But i guess i understand Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 Internationally refugees must be able to prove they are in danger of violence or being disciminated against for their gender, politics, or religion The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Well, why cant they prove? Wouldnt it be easy to prove it? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 I appreciate the point, but the debate here isn't about Refugees, its about legal non-citizen residents refugees get free care anyway The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 I understand If i can ask Could it be possible to adress immigration in another debate? Not now Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 yes absolutely The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Thank you Than im fine with this Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 I'm glad we were able to talk about this, and very glad we both ended up somewhere positive The Democratic States Of Slatium — 06/12/2021 Yea Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 06/12/2021 To revisit the motion from before this debate for the other @Assembly Members: The question is, are we happy to vote on the Resolution as it stands written? Zoque Fotekh — 06/12/2021 Happy to vote. frenkimaster99 — 06/12/2021 Again yea Alexander Mondo (Karr) — 07/12/2021 Absolutely. New Asden — 07/12/2021 👍 Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 07/12/2021 Ok, I will bring the vote up today. The Holy Empire of Yilmiz — 07/12/2021 Members, I have read the Bill and am happy to vote it as it stands. However, I have a question. The Bill will subject funding applications for the purposes of Article 2 to a vetting process by the Health Ministry prior to the dispensation of funds. May I know if Ministry oversight will end upon dispensation, or will there be additional monitoring mechanisms (facilitated by the Ministry or other existing legislation) to ensure proper spending by recipients? Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 07/12/2021 I believe that oversight does end once it has been accepted that the area to be covered by a public clinic will be in need of a nationally funded Emergency Department. Futher funding increases would be by application against changes in the demographics of the local area. The purpose of the vetting process is to ensure that local municipalities do not over-saturate an area with unnecessary departments as a means of pork barrelling votes. The Greatest of All Time — 07/12/2021 no clue Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 09/12/2021 pm!activate pubhealth Pollmaster BOT — 09/12/2021

>> pubhealth Poll Question Do you approve of the Public Hospitals and Healthcare Resolution? Roles Assembly Member Anonymous True Deadline Poll is closed. ​ Final Results of the Poll (Single Choice):
 * regional_indicator_a: Aye - 13 Votes
 * regional_indicator_b: Nay - 4 Votes
 * regional_indicator_c: Abstain - 2 Votes

Image React with ❔ to get info. It is not a vote option. Ulrykk von Guelderlaand — 09/12/2021 @Assembly Member The vote on the nationalisation of all Kodiak Emergency Departments and the increase in income tax by 2% is now available. Please vote using the above textbox by clicking on the reaction of the option you choose. I note that the poll bot is somewhat slow: you only need to click once and within 10-15 seconds it will register your vote. If you click a second time, it will remove your vote. You can confirm your vote by using the [?] button.

https://kodiak.fandom.com/wiki/The_Public_Hospitals_and_Healthcare_Act_(635%29